987FM Interview Transcript
The Shock Circuit with Sonia and Joakim
INTERVIEW: SHAWN AND DANIEL (SINGAPORE SIGN LANGUAGE INTERPRETERS)
Aired on Monday, 5 Feb 2024
Original Link to Podcast: https://www.melisten.sg/podcast/playlist/987-shock-circuit-175586/interview-shawn-and-daniel-singapore-sign-language-interpreters-2304746
Speakers: Joakim (DJ), Sonia (DJ), Daniel (Guest), Shawn (Guest)
[TRANSCRIPT BEGIN]
>> SONIA: If it ain’t me right here on 987, Singapore's number one hit music station, it is Sonia and Joakim here with you. Good morning!
>> JOAKIM: Alright, so we are live on TikTok saying hello to you, if you're watching us as well. And in the studio, look, over the last two weeks, aside from Coldplay going viral here in Singapore, (SONIA: Yep. Yep.) I think on TikTok, on your news articles, you would have seen them, they're now familiar faces. (SONIA: Yes.) And I'm really glad because they are doing a lot for the Deaf community here in Singapore. Not just for the Coldplay concert, but let's have them tell you their story. We've got Daniel and Shawn in the studio!
[SONIA & JOAKIM applaud]
>> SONIA: Yeah! Welcome!
>> DANIEL: Hello!
>> SHAWN: Hello, good morning, good morning!
>> SONIA: And just a fun fact, okay. (JOAKIM: Yeah.) I have to say, the moment I saw the articles go viral. (JOAKIM: Mhm.) I said, Shawn looks really familiar. And true enough, Shawn was actually one of our interns in 987 TV back in the day, and it is really him!
>> JOAKIM: Was this like 2012, 2013?
>> SHAWN: Back in 2013!
>> SONIA: 2013!
>> JOAKIM: Oh, wow! When I still a part-timer on 987!
>> SHAWN: Yes, so it’s 11 years, already? Yes?
>> SONIA: Yeah, it's been 11 years since you stepped back into—in fact, you've not even been into this studio.
>> SHAWN: I’ve never been. No, I have not.
>> SONIA: You look great!
>> SHAWN: Thank you, so, the both of you!
>> JOAKIM: Thank you very much!
>> SONIA: Thank you. I wouldn't say the same, this is, we've been here since 6 AM.
>> SHAWN: You guys do!
[SONIA chuckles]
>> JOAKIM: Okay, so maybe Shawn will start with you, explain your journey, how did you get into sign language and all that.
>> SHAWN: Oh it's a long journey, I think, there is a short story and a long story, but let's go with the truncated one. (SONIA: Okay.) (JOAKIM: Yeah.) So, basically I found videos of people signing, and I've always been very intrigued and interested at how vibrant this language is, it's so visual. So, you know, so this was during Poly time. So right around the time when I was in 987. (SONIA: Yeah!) And yeah, so I just went in a deep dive online about it, and then I just went on from there.
>> JOAKIM: And signing whatever he's saying right now, we've got Daniel who I've met for NDP two years ago,
>> SONIA: Yes! Yeah, how was that?
>> JOAKIM: And Daniel, your story, buddy, tell us how this whole thing got started for you.
>> DANIEL: Sure, wow, okay. This was about 7 or 8 years ago, I was in Poly, and then one of my friends were kind of like, “Hey, do you want to join me for this very cool CCA, the Sign Language Club?” (JOAKIM: yeah.) And I was like, “Oh, okay, sure.” It seems quite interesting, so I joined them, and literally that's how I got started. I started getting exposed to sign language, then I started to meet Deaf people in the Deaf community, and then fast forward three years. I was asked to join them as an interpreter at the association for the Deaf. Err, yeah! So it's been eight years since I started learning sign language, and five years since I started interpreting. And it's been really cool to finally be able to communicate and interact with the community that I think a lot of people haven't really had a chance to interact with.
>> SONIA: You know, it's extremely fascinating, and just watching the work that you've done for Coldplay, I think this is just the beginning of many more to come, (DANIEL: That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right.) because we all know this was a game-changer for a lot of people. And even for us, we may not be super familiar with what you guys do, (DANIEL & JOAKIM: Mhm.) but it has intrigued us, and intrigued many. So how do you feel moving forward, you're going to cope? I think a lot of concerts are going to probably try and involve you guys, you think?
>> DANIEL: That's exactly what we hope for. (SONIA: Yeah.) Erm, I don't know if you, do you remember a couple of years ago during the American Superbowl?
>> SONIA: Rihanna, right?
>> DANIEL: Rihanna, right? And then you saw this really cool Deaf person signing and performing the songs, right?
>> SONIA & JOAKIM: Yeah. Yes.
>> DANIEL: Her name is Justina Miles, and she's a Deaf nursing student. And so I think what's really important is, we want to have things like that in Singapore as well. We want to push for more Deaf people and Deaf interpreters to do these performances, right? (JOAKIM: Mhm.) And along the way also, making more concerts accessible, right? (SONIA: Mmm.) So because the Deaf community has never really had a chance to attend these concerts at this kind of scale, because it was for the longest time I don't think any Deaf person might remember any of these concerts providing interpreting services like Coldplay did recently. (SONIA: Yeah.) (JOAKIM: Mmm.) So that's why we've been pushing for more accessible concerts, and also more Deaf representation and having Deaf interpreters perform these concerts also.
>> SONIA: And you guys put so much work into it, maybe I'll ask Shawn right now. We were reading earlier on, you spent like, what? Sleepless nights working together as a group as well, not just two of you, right? [DANIEL chuckles] (DANIEL: Yeah.) It's a bigger group as well, to really interpret the entire Coldplay set. Please take us through that journey. How in the WORLD did you do that? It's just incredible.
>> DANIEL: Shawn, please take it away.
>> SHAWN: Okay. So we had a really tight timeline to work around. (SONIA: Yep.) (JOAKIM: Mmm.) So we had three of us interpreters, and we were given the full setlist on a pretty short notice. I mean, the nature of concerts is that things are a bit flexible, so we have to be really on-the-ball. So just a few nights before the concert, the three of us, so it's me, Daniel, and another interpreter, Azzam. We stayed up at Azzam's house from 9 PM to 11 AM, (SONIA: Oh!) because we were trying to standardise the way we signed the song. So we had to write it in a certain format for us to learn each other's songs easily. And how we did it is that we split up the work, right. So I cannot say how many songs there were in the setlist, [Sonia and Joakim laughs] because NDA. (SONIA: Yeah.) But let's just say nine songs, three of us, we had to standardise or write the interpretation down, three each, that way. Then we had to learn each other's songs, because you know when we interpret during a concert, it's in pairs. So we can't just do our songs, we have to interpret another person's song as well. I know it's a bit confusing.
>> JOAKIM: No, no, no.
>> SONIA: I get you, I get you.
>> SHAWN: Do you understand what I’m trying to say? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we really had to figure out how do we make the lyrics, some of the lyrics can get really abstract, right? (SONIA: Mmm.) So how do we make the lyrics a visual experience, right? So that's why if you've seen the videos as well, we also have another interpreter, the supporting interpreter doing the background instrumentation.
>> SONIA: Yes.
>> JOAKIM: I was going to get to that. So when I saw the video, when I saw Daniel, I went, okay, this guy is definitely signing the language. And then the other guy, it could be you or it could be your other guy as well, doing the drumming and all that.
>> SONIA & SHAWN: Yeah, yeah.
>> JOAKIM: And the comments, okay, because they didn't know what was going on, they said, oh, the other guy is having his own concert, is it? [SONIA laughs] So how does one actually sign the rhythm, the beat, and whatever you do that?
>> SHAWN: So we were plugged into the IEM, so it's like an In-Ear Monitor, and it's really synced straight to the, like on stage, right? So it's really about—I think when you guys enjoy music, you guys get that nuance of it, right? The tempo, right? (SONIA: Yeah, yeah.) The softness, even in instrumentation, you can like hit the instruments in a very soft way or in a loud way. So what we're really trying to bring out is the essence of what, you know, is playing live, right? (JOAKIM: Hmm.) The mood of it. So I think some of the videos where we're really like feeling it.
>> SONIA: Feeling it!
>> SHAWN: Or is it sassy, right?
>> SONIA: It's almost like a dance in a way!
>> SHAWN: Right! So I think in the song, like for “Biutyful”, the beat is very sassy, right?
>> SONIA: Yes! [SONIA laughs]
>> SHAWN: So we're really trying to bring out that vibe of that song through the instrumentation and whatever we're doing.
>> JOAKIM: Nice!
>> SONIA: So maybe I'll ask Dan this question. When you just started this out, did you also feel like you were so enlightened and there was so much to be educated on and to be aware of?
>> DANIEL: Yeah, I think growing up in Singapore, you don't really have a lot of exposure to Deaf and disabled people, right?
>> SONIA & JOAKIM: Yeah.
>> DANIEL: And when I first started learning sign language, I get to see this huge community that you've never really heard from or seen around. Maybe you've seen around, like some people using sign language around, but sometimes, you know, even my parents, you know, stop staring at them, you know, when you see two people signing. And it never really clicked that that's a real language for me, you know, until I started learning sign language and understanding the grammar and the semantic rules of all sign language. You realise that, hey, actually, you know, that's a full-fledged legitimate language, you know, and it's used by the community that's also very historically oppressed, right? Because their opinions and everything, often, it's always overlooked. It's the same as other disabled communities, yeah.
>> JOAKIM: Mhm. And this is where I want to learn more, actually. What is the correct way to address the community? Because earlier, I said “hearing-impaired”, and then off-air, you were saying, actually, just use the word “deaf”, it's okay. Because I was thinking to myself, if I use the word “deaf”, will people say, hey, I'm very insensitive, you know what I mean? So is there a correct way or maybe the politically correct way to address the community?
>> DANIEL: So the term “hearing-impaired”, it’s very—it comes from the medical community because it implies or it focuses a lot on the problem or the lack of hearing. However, the Deaf community, the ones who are very proud to be Deaf, who have Deaf culture, who probably use sign language, have been deaf from a very young age or from birth, they prefer the term “Deaf”. In fact, it's written as a capital D, ”Deaf”. So the appropriate terms to use is “Deaf” or “Hard-of-hearing”.
>> JOAKIM: Okay, there we go. Yeah.
>> DANIEL: So these appropriate terms would be preferred, so don't use the other “hearing-impaired”.
>> JOAKIM:Alright, there we go.
>> DANIEL: Sometimes you see other inappropriate terms also, like deaf and dumb or deaf and mute, which we should try to avoid as well.
>> SONIA: Yeah, unfortunately, you know, like media and the things that you see sometimes on social media as well, it's very hard. So I'm glad that we're doing this to really raise awareness. For you, Shawn, I was just curious, I know that this whole co-play thing has blown it out of control, like everyone's talking about you guys. But aside from that, what were some other rewarding moments that you've had in learning this craft over the years?
>> SHAWN: Over the years? I think it ties back into what we experienced during Coldplay as well. (JOAKIM: Yeah.) I posted on my social media—it’s private, so.
[SONIA & JOAKIM laughs]
>> SHAWN: I'm saying this for the deaf community, if they're watching, is that I think a lot of the reward, I think people expect the reward to be like, oh, the deaf is thanking us and everything like that. But from my perspective, when the deaf person is thanking me—it's not so much on that. Because what I remember is that these are the Deaf people that taught me sign language. And yeah, and I don't know, I think it's not so much about the thanks, but I just feel thankful that they have welcomed us to really have this, I don’t know… like progress together. And I get to witness it and be a part of it (JOAKIM: Yeah.) and not so much as a person who is driving it, but a person who is invited along with it. And I feel a sense of… pride for myself and for the Deaf community. The focus should really be about the Deaf community. And that's something that we really want to emphasise a lot there.
>> SONIA: Yeah. That's a great answer. Yeah.
>> JOAKIM: So earlier the both of you shared about how when it came down to the Coldplay songs, there was a setlist that was given to you and you all had a few days to practice it. Is this the same for events here in Singapore, like National Day Rallies? Do they actually email you the script before that and you practice how to sign it and then the person goes, during the live broadcast?
>> DANIEL: I cannot talk specifically about the National Day Rallies… But however…
[ALL laughs]
>> JOAKIM: Hahaha. But using the context of the question, you know what I mean?
>> DANIEL: Of course, of course, of course. So in other typical cases, for example, if it's an on-stage speech, for example, we do have preparation. If I'm going to interpret for a lecture in school, (JOAKIM: Yeah.) for example, I get all the slides, everything in advance so that we can prepare for terms that we're not familiar with. And we need to understand certain concepts first, before we're able to interpret it simultaneously live, right? So some more complex concepts, right, will require for us to understand it before. If not, if you're doing it on the spot, it sometimes can cause misunderstandings and it's a bit harder also. Yeah, so there's always preparation beforehand. It's super, super important.
>> SONIA: Yeah, for sure.
>> JOAKIM: I've got one more question for them.
>> SONIAL: Okay, last one.
>> JOAKIM: With all this talk about Coldplay done and dusted, are there talks about the Taylor Swift concert here in Singapore for the both of you all?
>> SONIA: Cannot say yet, is it? [SONIA laughs] I don't know.
[Brief tense silence, then JOAKIM wheezes in laughter]
>> DANIEL: So… [DANIEL laughs]
>> JOAKIM: Without spoiling anything.
>> DANIE: So far, nothing. I know there is some Deaf friends that has reached out and said that they want to go to the Taylor Swift concert. So we hope that future concerts are accessible in the future.
>> SONIA: We're working on it.
>> DANIEL: Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed.
>> SONIA: We're working on it, I think. Yeah, so hopefully with this, more awareness and more concerts coming up very soon and other events as well. Before I let you guys go, if anyone is interested to join and learn, how can they do so?
>> DANIE:: There is a few organisations in Singapore that offer Singapore Sign Language courses. Go look them up, find those courses. That's how you can get started. There's also a lot of Deaf events that happen throughout the year which you can get involved in. I think Sign Language is just a visual language and anyone can benefit from it, right. From things like baby sign language, if you've heard of the hospitals encouraging parents to teach their babies sign language to communicate before they can speak. I think Sign Language is just a language that everybody can learn and benefit from. Like, we can talk through glass windows or from a far away location. I can tell my friend to help me order ice milo at a coffee shop, you know.
[ALL laugh]
>> SONIA: Priorities!
>> DANIEL: But, of course, this is still a real language that's used by the Deaf community and it's best if you learn from Deaf people directly. Because this is their language and they're the native speakers of it, so find Deaf teachers. And I hope more and more people learn Sign Language and join us.
>> JOAKIM: I’m sure they will. Yeah.
>> SONIA: Thank you so much for sharing!
>> [JOAKIM claps] JOAKIM: Alright!
>> SONIA: Shawn, anything else you want to share before we let you go as well?
>> SHAWN: Daniel has summarised it perfectly.
>> SONIA: Amazing.
>> SHAWN: Right, it's just, I think again, what we really want to say is, learn from the Deaf. And I think, you know, even though right now the interview is on us, but let's put the Deaf people on spotlight. I just want to say, there are Deaf performers, there are Deaf dancers, there are Deaf actors, there are Deaf interpreters as well. And so in the future for, you know, concerts or even for events, you know, let's really hear from the Deaf what are their needs. And, you know, let's not block out their voices anymore, right? (SONIA: Yeah.) If you want to serve them, actually hear from them. (JOAKIM: Nice.)
>> SONIA: Perfect, thank you so much.
>> SHAWN: Thank you!
>> SONIA: That was summarised perfectly as well. And I think we need to give them a big round of applause.
>> JOAKIM: We do, we do, we do.
[SONIA & JOAKIM applaud]
>> SONIA: Only two of us here in the studio, but we gotta, we gotta… Yeah.
>> DANIEL: Thank you so much, thank you.
>> JOAKIM: What a meaningful interview you had this morning.
>> SHAWN: Thank you.
>> SONIA: Yeah, okay. All the best! We hope to see you back on air very, very soon. And for those of you on TikTok, thanks for tuning in as well. We'll catch you, of course, another time. If you missed out on all of this, it'll be available on MeListen's podcast.
[TRANSCRIPT END]
